Curse

Miral · Jul 15, 2007, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

No, it wasn't.

That was the problem.

No, they weren't.

The cinematics, even improved in Nightfall, are horrible. The missions are mediocre for the most part. Slow levelling in some games works, in Guild Wars it doesn't.

eh it was fun the first time around, when everything is new. the problem is repeating it over and over again :\

hallomik · Jul 15, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

In other games, you tend to get a tremendous feeling of success and achievement when your character reaches a new level. This is because in those games, leveling is central to character development, and at higher and higher levels, it can take days, even weeks to gain just one, finally increasing your power and allowing you to defeat that big baddie or wear that one piece of armor you just couldn't before.

In GW, everything maxes out early. Armor/weapons stop scaling up in power at a very early point, and your character stops gaining any attribute points once you hit level 20. This is how the game was designed. This is how it always was, and always will be (for GW1, that is).

The tremendous sense of achievement in this case comes from what you do with your character. Discovering a new skill combo that works well, playing a new build that is effective and fun, defeating a high-ranked guild or a really difficult mission you usually have problems with - all can offer up that sense of accomplishment. These feelings are a lot more genuine and fulfilling than a simple number increase. In GW, I never got that feeling from seeing my character's level change from 13 to 14 - no matter if it happened in 10 minutes, 10 hours, or 10 days. The only number that matters is 20, period.

Very good insight, as usual.

Still, when I invest a few hours in the game, I like to leave having improved my character in some way. I think games that follow the WOW formula are a bit more addictive than GW because there's always something you can do to make your Avatar just a little better - improve your crafting level, find a slightly better weapon or armor piece, or just move the experience bar a bit more to the next level.

Not being on that treadmill is a great thing about playing GW, but there are a lot of players out there who will lose interest without the constant little rewards.

I think that's why the various titles/faction skills, etc. are being added to the game. They don't imbalance play (at least they shouldn't), but they give those who want to constantly progress a way to do it.

cce · Jul 15, 2007, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by william1975

I started playing Prophicies about 2 months before factions came out, and hated the slow progress to leveling, i had characters stuck there for a year because i didnt like the leveling speed

Hear! Hear! We don't want the level cap raised for GW2. This just increases grind. I would like to play with full abilities and enjoy the content -- and have my parties limited by my skill, not by a [32 of max 100] thingy next to my name.

cellardweller · Jul 15, 2007, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Prophesies
Pre-sear - dead content beyond L5
Ascalon - dead content beyond L7
Northern shiverpeaks - dead content beyond L9
Kryta - dead content beyond L12
Maguma - dead content beyond L15
Desert - dead content beyond L18
Southern shiverpeaks - playable content
Fire Islands - playable content
Verdict - 1/4 of the game is still playable

Factions
Newbie island - dead content beyond L15
Eastern City - playable content
Jade Sea - playable content
Echovald forest - playable content
Western City - playable content.
Verdict - 4/5 of the game is still playable

Hard mode has helped bandaid the situation, but it is just that- a bandaid. In an ideal world, everyone would start at L20 so the entire game would be designed for a character of the appropriate level.

Seissor · Jul 15, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by yikomaka

Hey all,

First of all I have been playing Guild Wars since it came out I remember playing with not half of the new features out today and it was a fun grind to 20. It wasn't hard at all back then it just took time, but it did not seem like a grind because the missions and cinematics were nice.

However I came back and started a new charecter, within one day I was at about level 10 which is normal as starting area is easy. When I got to 15 I went to Factions (Nightfall, Factions etc is linked to my account) from there I simply went around doing all the 3000 xp quests with the level 20 henchies fighting for me and some of my heroes from nightfall area (just got the heroes no missions there) I began to level up at a fast rate and within a few hours, 3 at most I was level 20.

What are you guys comments and opinions? Do you think the new Factions and Nightfall have ruined the leveling rate?

BTW the new features I have noticed, small things like extra bank storage are really nice too. Have not yet tried out Hard mode but that seems fun!

Yo. I too remember GW prophecies, slower method of leveling. 1/2 - 3/4 of the game as about leveling up and that was fine with just prophecies :-)

But you see in Factions and NF lvl 20 chars from Proph could come over, and lvl 20 chars playing in Fac./NF from the start onwards using the GW Proph model...silly. 4 lvl 20s running around killin lvl 10 baddies. bad drops, too easy, little challenge, little reward. basically walk through the game until it begins latter. Thats why Fact./NF are faster, and more intense, so theres more ascended content and its not all about getting to lvl 20.

The trade off, is that noob island is far bigger than pre-seer, especially in NF.

I Like it the way it is, I would have quit GW if Factions was begin all over again and I brought my lvl 20s over.

Kool Pajamas · Jul 15, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Fast leveling is good. I hate leveling.

Age · Jul 15, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

No, it wasn't.

That was the problem.

No, they weren't.

The cinematics, even improved in Nightfall, are horrible. The missions are mediocre for the most part. Slow levelling in some games works, in Guild Wars it doesn't.

Agreed that is why I suggest this.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0156356&page=2
For a faster track of completing Prophecies and i don't know why there is Ghost in the desert missions now as well as to do them anyway.That was because it was to help you play in PvPs Hall of Heros once you got fully ascended.I don't see the purpose of the Ghost anyway as it relates to the HoH now HA not the TomPs as it once was.It is hard to get survivior status in Prophecies without get run through the missions
The Maxed out armour would be moved to LA as you should be ascended and have few elites before getting to ToA like the other campaigns.

prism2525 · Jul 15, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

The best thing is that it's level 20, not 100k

Still GW2's level cap is still unknown (if there will be). Anet said they'd make it so there won't be gaps as in other MMOs and other things....

*prays*

Tea Girl · Jul 15, 2007, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Because less grinding is more fun

If you want to grind... try WoW or other MMO ;3

LumpOfCole · Jul 15, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Guild Wars already introduced an official powerleveling service a year ago. It's called Factions.

Age · Jul 15, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by LumpOfCole

Guild Wars already introduced an official powerleveling service a year ago. It's called Factions.

What if you don't have it though as that is the exact thing I want to see for Prophecies as LA will be like KC.The real game starts when you get to LA.

cce · Jul 15, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

Prophesies
Pre-sear - dead content beyond L5
Ascalon - dead content beyond L7
Northern shiverpeaks - dead content beyond L9
Kryta - dead content beyond L12
Maguma - dead content beyond L15
Desert - dead content beyond L18
Southern shiverpeaks - playable content
Fire Islands - playable content
Verdict - 1/4 of the game is still playable

Factions
Newbie island - dead content beyond L15
Eastern City - playable content
Jade Sea - playable content
Echovald forest - playable content
Western City - playable content.
Verdict - 4/5 of the game is still playable

Hard mode has helped bandaid the situation, but it is just that- a bandaid. In an ideal world, everyone would start at L20 so the entire game would be designed for a character of the appropriate level.

Quoted because it is spot on. The notion of "level" is stupid, and the GW2 notion of increasing the level cap is even stupider. The trend... which is working well, is to *decrease* the level cap by making level progression faster. Why on earth does Arena.Net want to go in *reverse* direction of their proven success?

scrinner · Jul 16, 2007, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Well, we dont exactly know the details on the new leveling system. For all it is, It could just be the renaming of Skill points to "levels" after level twenty and it would be for cosmetic purposes? But we have no way of knowing this since GW2 is FAR off (Unfortunately...). I just want to know what will happen to guildwars in between the two games

Hyper.nl · Jul 16, 2007, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Leveling is fun, and imo the level cap could not be high enough.

bilateralrope · Jul 16, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tea Girl

Because less grinding is more fun

If you want to grind... try WoW or other MMO ;3

Oh if you want grinding, go with Maple Story. All you can do there is grind up your level so that your able to grind up your level against higher level enemies.

freekedoutfish · Jul 16, 2007, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Achieving level 20 became a joke when factions was released and it do-able within just 2 or 3 missions.

I actually took my necro from prophercies over from Tyria to Cantha at level 15 and within about 3 quests he was at lvl20.

Nightfall made it take a tiny bit longer, but its no where near as good as it was in prophercies. In prophercies attaining lvl20 meant something through ascension and it was a number to be proud of.

But Anet wont change it, because they felt it took too long.

They basically listened to the wingey players who didnt want to dedicate time and effort into the game, and wanted everything given to them on a silver platter.

End result was Cantha and a continuing trend.

But if you ask more players, they prefere it taking a short amount of time. Its only really old players, who have been around from the start who appreciate prophercies and its long play time.

However....

...having made a few characters now, I can appreciate not wanting to spend days leveling a character instead of a few hours. I have to admit to having more factions characters then any other, because I enjoy the "get in there" playability.

But I would never knock prophercies because it has the best system for a well thought out play time.

White knight lord · Jul 16, 2007, 08:38 AM // 08:38

I started out in proph which I personally think is the best of all three. I have 2 proph 3 NF and 1 factions I didn't like factions because I think they rushed to put something out there I think it was their main goal to make the leveling of characters much easier in NF and factions I think no matter what campaign you start a character once you have made a few its all the same thing over and over again so I personally feel like its the same amount of time either way but I still find more fun in proph

.

S_Serpent · Jul 16, 2007, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Achieving level 20 became a joke when factions was released and it do-able within just 2 or 3 missions.

I actually took my necro from prophercies over from Tyria to Cantha at level 15 and within about 3 quests he was at lvl20.

Nightfall made it take a tiny bit longer, but its no where near as good as it was in prophercies. In prophercies attaining lvl20 meant something through ascension and it was a number to be proud of.

But Anet wont change it, because they felt it took too long.

They basically listened to the wingey players who didnt want to dedicate time and effort into the game, and wanted everything given to them on a silver platter.

End result was Cantha and a continuing trend.

But if you ask more players, they prefere it taking a short amount of time. Its only really old players, who have been around from the start who appreciate prophercies and its long play time.

However....

...having made a few characters now, I can appreciate not wanting to spend days leveling a character instead of a few hours. I have to admit to having more prophercies characters then any other, because I enjoy the "get in there" playability.

But I would never knock prophercies because it has the best system for a well thought out play time.

Same here: got 3 lvl 20 tyrian chars (=elementalist, monk, mesmer) and only 1 lvl 20 canthan (=ritualist) and 1 lvl 20 elonian (=dervish) they all finished at least 1 their home campaign and some even more.

For me its all about how they will look (for the core prophecies). I'll start the campaign which has the look I want for my char :P

freekedoutfish · Jul 16, 2007, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Serpent

Same here: got 3 lvl 20 tyrian chars (=elementalist, monk, mesmer) and only 1 lvl 20 canthan (=ritualist) and 1 lvl 20 elonian (=dervish) they all finished at least 1 their home campaign and some even more.

For me its all about how they will look (for the core prophecies). I'll start the campaign which has the look I want for my char :P

Oops, I actually meant to write...

"I have to admit to having more factions characters then any other, because I enjoy the "get in there" playability."

Moa Bird Cultist · Jul 16, 2007, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Will this sum it up?

Prophecies: Long, slow progress to level 20. it's fun to do this one every so often. To date, I have 6 level 20s out of prophecies, 5 of whom are pre-factions and all of whom are Tyrian exclusive.

Factions: Powerlevels r Us. 6 hours or less to get to level 20. I've got around 11 characters raised this way. Good for getting stuck into a class you're not familiar with.

Nightfall: Fast leveling, infuriatingly boring pre-island. I hate Istan. It is the most barren, unappealing place in all of guild wars. I've raised a Paragon, a Dervish and an Elementalist through here and am trying to bring myself to get a Mesmer and a Necro through as well... It's not that I don't enjoy Mesmer or Necro, far from it - I enjoy them more than Ritualist at least, but Istan is such a bane that they are both stuck at level 12 and have been for about half a year...

Also you have to consider the amount of level 20 content there is, as opposed to the % of the game that is level 20. In Prophecies, I would consider the desert onwards to be level 20, so that's 10 missions, all of which are much larger than their factions counterparts, not to mention all of the exploration inbetween up to Ice Caves of Sorrow.

By contrast, the level 20 content required to complete factions is comprised of Vizunah Square to Raisu Palace. Imperial Sanctum doesn't count as a separate mission - it's more of a formality than anything. 9 missions, for a full playthrough. Not to mention that said 9 missions are easily accomplished within a single day.

Now take the example of Nightfall. once you're to Consulate Docks, you're in Level 20 territory and from then on out, the amount of level 20 content is in my estimation greater than both prophecies and factions put together. So in my opinion, Elona is the best continent for lv20 characters to be, followed by Tyria and then Cantha. There's just not enough to Cantha in reality. Besides, Tyria is prettier.